Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

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tibono
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Re: Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

Mensaje por tibono » 11 Feb 2019 07:43

CBF escribió:
10 Feb 2019 23:09
do you know any GUI which has problems with such a missing '*'?
Yes CBF, Hiarcs Chess Explorer fails to load the last move. Not a real issue anyway, I admit.
All GUIs I tested provide the * when copying the pgn of an on-going game to clipboard, so it is 'de facto' sort of a standard.

Too bad the MAME code doesn't handle the right-click... Crystal clear, thanks for the feedback.
:good: CB-Emu is great!
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Re: Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

Mensaje por berger » 11 Feb 2019 09:17

Hello,

SCID fails when importing a PGN if it doesn't have the final result or '*', at least the version I use in Linux.

See attached file as an example.

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Berger
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CBF
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Re: Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

Mensaje por CBF » 11 Feb 2019 12:12

Hi Berger and Tibono,

I've tried now both programs (Scid and Hiarcs) - first to the easier 'problem':
berger escribió:
11 Feb 2019 09:17
SCID fails when importing a PGN if it doesn't have the final result or '*', at least the version I use in Linux.
Scid does not fail to import the PGN, it just shows a popup message with a warning about the missing '*',
but it does in fact load the games from the PGN file, and you can use them without problems.
So it's not really necessary to change anything in CB-Emu (i.e. adding such a '*' at the end), especially
because this would create other (more serious) problems - I'll explain this in my answer to Tibonos
Hiarcs problem (and BTW you can always export the loaded PGN games in Scid to the same file, and then
you'll have this '*' in the new PGN file).
tibono escribió:
11 Feb 2019 07:43
Yes CBF, Hiarcs Chess Explorer fails to load the last move.
Well, that has nothing to do with a missing '*', but with a missing CR+LF after the last move (only in the
last game of the PGN file!) , and thus it's not a CB-Emu problem but a glitch of Hiarcs (because every
other GUI reads the last move correctly also without such a CR/LF).
If you look at the gamelog.pgn you'll see, that there's nothing after the last move, no space and no linefeed.
I had to do it this way, because this PGN logging should also work, if you abort the game and continue it
anytime later (e.g. via 'Autosave' or 'Save state' and a later 'Load state'). And since I don't know whether
a game has been finished already or will be continued anytime later, I just can't add a possible CR+LF
after each full move - I can only do this before the next move is logged(or when a new game is started).

I've now also tried to add a space AFTER each move (instead of BEFORE the move, which is currently done),
because such a space after the last move would avoid this HIarcs problem, but this method would lead to
a new problem with pawn promotions: since choosing the promotion piece in CB-Emu is in fact a new 'move',
there would now be a space between the promotion move and the selected promotion piece, and this is
somethíng that certainly no GUI would accept!

You see that it's not possible to add a CR+LF or a '*' immediately after the last move of a game, simply
because it's not clear if the last executed move is indeed the last one of the game - the game could be
aborted and be continued later via 'Autosave'. So the only possible way to add one of these 'game terminators'
for the last game, is to send it AFTER actually starting a new game with the same or any other chess module.

CBF

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Re: Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

Mensaje por berger » 11 Feb 2019 12:55

CBF escribió:
11 Feb 2019 12:12
Scid does not fail to import the PGN, it just shows a popup message with a warning about the missing '*',
but it does in fact load the games from the PGN file, and you can use them without problems.
You're absolutely right, I'm sorry. I just tried it again, and it's just a warning, not a critical error.

Actually this morning all I've done is simulate PGN importing into various programs I have on Linux. It hasn't been an in-depth study. :blush:

Regards,
Berger
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Re: Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

Mensaje por CBF » 11 Feb 2019 14:58

berger escribió:
11 Feb 2019 12:55
You're absolutely right, I'm sorry. I just tried it again, and it's just a warning, not a critical error.
Well, the problem is that different GUIs handle such PGN files differently:
Scid wants a game result at the end and Hiarcs wants a LF/CR (which is more serious, because
without it it just ignores the last move).

But in the meantime I had an idea to solve both problems:
As I've explained in my last answer, I can't add such a '*' automatically, neither when exiting a
chess module (or CB-Emu) nor when restarting a new module (or CB-Emu) again, because
this would destroy the possibility of aborting a game and resuming it later (via 'Save/Load state'
or the 'Autosave' feature).
BUT: I can let the user manually tell CB-Emu, that a game is finished and that CB-Emu
should append a '*' to the movelist!
And this is exactly what I've just done - and it works (although with an extra mouseclick by the user).
I've now added a new option 'Send Game Result *' in the engines 'File' menu (directly below the option
'Stop Logging Moves'), so you can add yourself this '*' to the PGN file when a game is really finished.

For Scid it isn't really necessary (as you've already discovered, too), and for Hiarcs this would only be
required after the very last game has been finished (i.e. before you finally exit CB-Emu), because Hiarcs
has only problems with this very last move in the PGN file, not with previous games.

So what do you say to this method - would this be an acceptable solution?

Regards,
CBF

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Re: Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

Mensaje por tibono » 11 Feb 2019 20:34

Hi CBF,

don't worry too much about - as Hiarcs seems to be the only embarrassed GUI, it is up to Hiarcs dev team to perhaps handle the pgn data in a more tolerant way.

A use case can be the will to launch an analysis on current position of an on-going CB-EMU game, simply by double-clicking the log file with your favorite GUI associated to .pgn files --> in such a case with Hiarcs it is easy to manually play the last move using the Hiarcs chessboard. Using previously a menu option (or a notepad) to complete the file with a '*' would result in the need to remove it later, so no gain here...

Thinking about your idea of a menu option to complete the pgn once the game is finished, a 3-choices 1-0 or 0-1 or 1/2-1/2 would be more useful to most users than a meaningless * at this stage (and would also do the trick for Hiarcs in post-game use cases).

Warm regards,
Tibono

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Re: Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

Mensaje por CBF » 11 Feb 2019 21:03

Hi Tibono,
tibono escribió:
11 Feb 2019 20:34
Thinking about your idea of a menu option to complete the pgn once the game is finished, a 3-choices 1-0 or 0-1 or 1/2-1/2 would be more useful to most users than a meaningless * at this stage (and would also do the trick for Hiarcs in post-game use cases).
we seem to have the same ideas ;) - I've already extended this new menu option a few hours ago,
and now you can select between all 4 possible results (the 3 above and a '*').

So this will be in my next update ...

Regards,
CBF

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Re: Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

Mensaje por JOHN APP » 16 Feb 2019 12:52

Thanks again CBF for all the wonderful work, especially on winboard. Question is ther a way to see the computational info on winboard ie line of thought. But once again special THX.

CBF
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Re: Emuladores de Ajedrez de MESS

Mensaje por CBF » 17 Feb 2019 09:07

JOHN APP escribió:
16 Feb 2019 12:52
Question is ther a way to see the computational info on winboard ie line of thought.
Well, in principle this would of course be possible, but a LOT of work, already for one single device.
But we don't have one but more than 100 devices, so who would do this work? Definitely not me!

And for what would anyone need this? This MESS-Chess package is only useful for engine matches
or tournaments - if you want to play yourself against any engine, than CB-Emu is clearly the better choice.

CBF

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